I'm reading Xiaomeng Liu's plaster annotation, and he brings up the question of why on fol. 66v "prunelle" is translated as sloe instead of "prunell". Cotgrave gives both translations, and Xiaomeng found prunell, self-heale, and other names for apparently the same herb in other herbals, so I think we should change it to "prunell".
There seem to me to further translation problems also: mesles y du sumach des prunelles de buissons de la graine de coings balaustes foeilles dolivier & semblables decuits & mesles avecq la tourmentine Mays joublyois quil fault apres avoir aplique le pain chault qui ramolist & faict suer mectre dessus des linges trempes en eau de ruche de miel cest a scavoir de miel & cire extraicts tout ensemble du bornat
trans: Mix in sumac, sloes from bushes, quince seeds, pomegranate flowers, olive tree leaves, & the like, decocted, & mix with the turpentine. But, I forgot, one needs, after having applied the hot bread, which softens & makes one sweat, to put on linen cloths soaked with water from a honey beehive, that is to say honey & wax extracted all together from the beehive.
I suggest the following translation changes: Mix in sumac, prunell from bushes, quince seeds, pomegranate flowers, olive tree leaves, & the like, decocted, & mix with the turpentine. But, I forgot, one needs, after having applied the hot bread, which softens & makes one sweat, to put on linen cloths soaked with water from a honey bee hive, that is to say honey & wax extracted all together from the honeycomb.
@TillmannTaape @Pantagrueliste can you please comment?
I like your bee-related changes.
When I read this annotation, the reason I wasn't 100% convinced about his identification of prunelle as the herb self-heal is the addition "de buissons" – it could be an instruction to gather the herb where it grows among bushes, but that seems somewhat irrelevant; furthermore, "prunelle de buisson" does refer to sloes or plum-like things in dictionaries from the 17th and 18th centuries:
e.g. Guy Miège (1679)
Ah, very important information, which should be added to something--the glossary? an ed comment? What do you think?
I will add to X's annotation. Maybe it's all the same thing anyway:the first thing that comes up when one googles sloe is
On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 9:29 AM Tillmann Taape notifications@github.com wrote:
I like your bee-related changes.
When I read this annotation, the reason I wasn't 100% convinced about his identification of prunelle as the herb self-heal is the addition "de buissons" – it could be an instruction to gather the herb where it grows among bushes, but that seems somewhat irrelevant; furthermore, "prunelle de buisson" does refer to sloes or plum-like things in dictionaries from the 17th and 18th centuries:
Nouveau Dictionaire du Voyageur (1703) https://books.google.com/books?id=sMIF0Hz3M2wC&pg=PA815&lpg=PA815&dq=prunum+spineum&source=bl&ots=Z4iHTsQDuE&sig=ACfU3U2DxFIFYyHWFLKAjjZfDZJpOsxeoQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj52JbR__jlAhUwwlkKHUUcAm4Q6AEwDXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=prunum%20spineum&f=false
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Prunelle only occurs once so probably ed note, if you think it's necessary to defend our translation as "sloe" (it seems pretty uncontroversial to me).
I was happy to let X's footnote stand as a translation hypothesis that didn't end up being followed in the translation, but it does make sense to include a note there to say why we didn't follow his recommendation.
It's clearly prunus spinosa, the one with which we make so many delicious liquors (bargnolino, patxaran, prunelle de buisson, etc.) Not prunella vulgaris.
I've added to the footnote, but I think we still need to change "sloes from bushes," which could be changed to "blackthorn sloes." Let's talk about this.
CONFIRMED: blackthorn sloes @TillmannTaape to do